4.4.19 - Bug - CPU/CCD Production

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meRlinX_AT
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4.4.19 - Bug - CPU/CCD Production

Post by meRlinX_AT »

Hallo,

it seems with CPU's is something not ok.

I have 1 big factory for CCD with 720.000 sold units (36 month) and 19 customers directly attached to 2 sales units.
They have never a heavy utilisation nor high demand
1 Silicon = 50 CCD
cablab_ccd.JPG
cablab_ccd.JPG (115.2 KiB) Viewed 1773 times
... and then I need 8 big factories for CPU's with 2 attached warehouses to sell
160.000 units (36 month) to 8 customers (3 Output) + 52.000 units (36 month) to 7 customers (3 Output)
1 Silicon = 50 CPU

They have always a minimum of 60% - 75% demand and a mixed utilisation in the Warehouse
cablab_wh_cpu.JPG
cablab_wh_cpu.JPG (117.33 KiB) Viewed 1773 times
+ Just a minor point - the Input Unit (even on Lvl 9) from the Warehouse is to weak to suck out a big factory with some products - like CPU
cablab_cpu.JPG
cablab_cpu.JPG (113.79 KiB) Viewed 1773 times
I had tested before:
- 1 big factory with the same layout as the CCD - they had reached the limit with 1 Desktop and 1 Notebook big fac
... switched the Layout to the above and used
- 1 big Warehouse with 4 input (2 Input to 1 fac) = 2 big CPU factories
- 1 big Warehouse with 4 input (1 input to 1 fac) = 4 big CPU factories
- .. Warehouse with 1 Storage, with 2 Storage ...


thanks
greetz
Win 7 Pro / Cap Lab 4.4.19 + Sub DLC

* I'm not an native English speaker - maybe some phrases or words are not the "yellow from the egg".
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David
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Re: 4.4.19 - Bug - CPU/CCD Production

Post by David »

I have 1 big factory for CCD with 720.000 sold units (36 month) and 19 customers directly attached to 2 sales units.
They have never a heavy utilisation nor high demand
The demand bar will be improved in the next version 4.5.00.

Not having a high utilization rate - your sale unit's level is 9 and it is capable of having the sales very efficiently without reaching its limit, which is a good thing.
meRlinX_AT
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Re: 4.4.19 - Bug - CPU/CCD Production

Post by meRlinX_AT »

David wrote:
I have 1 big factory for CCD with 720.000 sold units (36 month) and 19 customers directly attached to 2 sales units.
They have never a heavy utilisation nor high demand
The demand bar will be improved in the next version 4.5.00.

Not having a high utilization rate - your sale unit's level is 9 and it is capable of having the sales very efficiently without reaching its limit, which is a good thing.
The CCD factory is not the problem ... i can easily produce 720.000 pcs with just 1 factory and sell them with just 2 sale units directly to all my customers and conquer the whole market (maybe they are to OP?)

The CPU factory produces (with the same layout as the CCD fac) ~35.000 pcs (which is maybe a little to less) ... but the sales units has a much higher utilisation with just 2-3 customers --> which makes no sense.
both products will be sold on trays with ESD shielding.

1 warehouse input has also troubles with CPU's from 1 big factory - this brings up an bottleneck

hope this makes it clearer?
Win 7 Pro / Cap Lab 4.4.19 + Sub DLC

* I'm not an native English speaker - maybe some phrases or words are not the "yellow from the egg".
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David
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Re: 4.4.19 - Bug - CPU/CCD Production

Post by David »

The CCD factory is not the problem ... i can easily produce 720.000 pcs with just 1 factory and sell them with just 2 sale units directly to all my customers and conquer the whole market (maybe they are to OP?)

The CPU factory produces (with the same layout as the CCD fac) ~35.000 pcs (which is maybe a little to less) ... but the sales units has a much higher utilisation with just 2-3 customers --> which makes no sense.
both products will be sold on trays with ESD shielding.
You can find the following information in the Capitalism 2 manual: (also attached the snapshot)
"Stock. The quantity of the product stocked in the unit. Each cargo unit can
store a certain number of product units. The number of units a cargo unit
can hold varies. For some expensive products, such as automobiles, one
cargo holds only a few units. For lower-cost products, such as shampoo, one
cargo unit holds several thousand units. The value of each cargo unit is
about the same."

The sale unit's capacity is limited by the number of cargoes it can handle.

This explains the matters.
Attachments
cargo.png
cargo.png (136.45 KiB) Viewed 1751 times
meRlinX_AT
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Re: 4.4.19 - Bug - CPU/CCD Production

Post by meRlinX_AT »

David wrote:
The CCD factory is not the problem ... i can easily produce 720.000 pcs with just 1 factory and sell them with just 2 sale units directly to all my customers and conquer the whole market (maybe they are to OP?)

The CPU factory produces (with the same layout as the CCD fac) ~35.000 pcs (which is maybe a little to less) ... but the sales units has a much higher utilisation with just 2-3 customers --> which makes no sense.
both products will be sold on trays with ESD shielding.
You can find the following information in the Capitalism 2 manual: (also attached the snapshot)
"Stock. The quantity of the product stocked in the unit. Each cargo unit can
store a certain number of product units. The number of units a cargo unit
can hold varies. For some expensive products, such as automobiles, one
cargo holds only a few units. For lower-cost products, such as shampoo, one
cargo unit holds several thousand units. The value of each cargo unit is
about the same."

The sale unit's capacity is limited by the number of cargoes it can handle.

This explains the matters.
come one ... thanks a lot ... i play CapII quite some time ... and it explains just, that you will sell pears as apples.
therefore i had up to 2 inventory units in the CPU fac as well as already above mentioned (which are always near empty)

let's compare:
- 1 Silicon = 50 CCD's
- 1 Silicon = 50 CPU's
- CCD PROD_SPEED = 100
- CPU PROD_SPEED = 100
- CCD FREIGHT (freight cost index) = 1
- CPU FREIGHT (freight cost index) = 1
- 1 Big CCD Factory Sales (36 month) = 470k
- 1 Big CPU Factory Sales (36 month) = 22k
- 2 Big CCD Factory Inventories = near full
- 1 Big CPU Factory Inventory = empty
- 4 Big CCD Factory Mft Units @ Lvl 6
- 4 Big CPU Factory Mft Units @ Lvl 9
- CCD PRICE (standard price of the product) = 30
- CPU PRICE (standard price of the product) = 100
cablab_ccd_fac.JPG
cablab_ccd_fac.JPG (114.54 KiB) Viewed 1743 times
cablab_cpu_fac.JPG
cablab_cpu_fac.JPG (114.87 KiB) Viewed 1743 times
this leads just to one conclusion and should be maybe your true and brutally honest answer a few days ago.
"sorry - atm the standard price of a product has an very very huge impact to the production output of an mft unit and also a very very huge impact on the sales handling. this leads to the dramatically unrealistic difference.
you have observed this issue with other products as well.
maybe you find a way for you. please find instructions for modding under http://www.capitalismlab.com/mod.html / Advanced Modding - Products and http://www.capitalismlab.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=39

i have noted your wish and we will consider if we can make changes. stay tuned and watch the changelogs.
thanks for your valuable time, input and help, to make the game even more better!
Please torment me at any time"


.. or just sell pears as apples

greetz
Win 7 Pro / Cap Lab 4.4.19 + Sub DLC

* I'm not an native English speaker - maybe some phrases or words are not the "yellow from the egg".
saffgee
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Re: 4.4.19 - Bug - CPU/CCD Production

Post by saffgee »

So, because I'm a generally nice guy I took the time to test this.

Turns out you are only partially correct. There is indeed a factor difference (I make it exactly 10x) between CPU and CCD production on Vanilla. What I haven't done yet is make my own mod to study any changes that may occur to this balance when I tweak the numbers myself. I also ran some tests on other products that share inputs and changed prices, etc to see the effect it has - It has none whatsoever. As such, the likelihood that this is a price issue is lessened and if it is one, it is based purely on the standard prices that are preset for each product and is some sort of safeguard against excessive profit margins. that behaviour is certainly testable in a mod by tweaking the standard prices.

Therefore, based on the evidence so far I would suggest the developers tweaked the CPU's specifically in order to stop players from making an absolute killing by just over-producing those. With their enormous profit margin, this seems sensible, but I do wonder why they didn't just reduce the amount that are made for each unit of Silicon or something like that, this may have been a more productive fix as well as a reversible one.

David, any thoughts/clues on this ?
saffgee
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Re: 4.4.19 - Bug - CPU/CCD Production

Post by saffgee »

Ok, further analysis reveals that there is indeed causality between profit margin and the amount of a good that is produced. I still think the OP was a little quick with the finger pointing on the specific products, but the evidence suggests there are changes to the amount produced made by the game when the profit margin gets too high. I have run this test on many different products and they all do the same - it's effectively a reducing multiplier applied to units produced as profit margin rises and is pretty much in line with the factor of the profit margin. Eg. if a product normally produces 1,000 units @ 100 profit each, it will only produce 100 units @ 1,000 profit each. This is based on the cost of input compared to the products standard (or base) price. Strangely, price changes during the game have no effect on this behaviour.

David, is this because per the game engine, each cargo "unit" has to have the same value ?
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