Setting starting date for the Internet-Techs

[KnutKnatterton]

Hi@all,

I am relatively new to create my own scripts for this game so far. My main goal was to start to an earlier date, but I figured out that there are some side implications. Is there an easy way to set the start date for researching the internet techs in a script or do I have to create an own mod including dbf-files?
My idea was to start in the mid 70's or 80's and let the research for internet stuff to kick in in the 90's.
Or if there is a mod already dealing with this issue?

Thanks for your help!

[KnutKnatterton]

No one thought about that?

[Nix77]

I was fiddling around with the scripts and modding with the same issue in mind, but couldn't find any solution for this. The "CANINV_YR" and "PARENT" parameters are available in the Tech.DBF file in MOD_kit directory but apparently they are not implemented yet. With these two parameters you could set up some preparing techs for Digital Age products and Internet stuff.

One issue is also that when you set the Desktop computer CANINV_YR in the Product_Types.DBF (1980 for example), that somehow messes up the operating system business (since it will always be available, even without the hardware). Even after someone invents the Desktop Computer, the OS business doesn't start selling.

I tried to circumvent this by having the COMPUTER product be a primitive computer with very little demand and necessity, and creating a new "modern desktop computer" product that had more demand and necessity, and that would kick up the computer and software industry in 1990s. Problem here is that the AI is still really keen on getting into computer business, even if there's only the primitive computer available, that has really low demand. I set the modern computer to have way higher demand, necessity and price to make it more lucrative, but the AI didn't seem to be that much interested in it.

I also set the "modern computer" to phase out the "primitive computer" quite quickly with OUTBY and OUTSPEED variables. Also tried the TECH_IMPT variable to give more teching emphasis for the modern computer, but could be that this value is only used by semi-products.

Would be really nice if the devs added some more control over the Digital Age stuff. I'm really interested in earlier starts also, the current state of the game doesn't really allow realistic pre-1990 starts. I think they could be quite simply implemented, since the tech requirement, PARENT and CANINV_YR mechanics are already there.

Some more script features could be imho implemented to enable us to do stuff like add certain types of AIs at certain dates, block buildings/techs/products until certain dates (both for player AND the AI) etc. etc. There are endless options

-Nix

[saffgee]

I haven't exhaustively tested this yet, but am working on something similar - my mod will start in 1900. The problems you describe are unfortunately all too prevalent when you look at modding something specific, a lot of the things we might need turn out to need coding and are simply not moddable on the fly. You can usually find workarounds, but these will often require a leap of "role-playing" faith by the player when implemented - meaning they don't work for the AI. I haven't coded my pre-req techs yet (and I want to work extensively with them), but I wasn't aware the CANINV_YR and PARENT fields are not yet active. David is this accurate ?

On the operating systems, it can be quite tricky. Have you set the parameters correctly in the hardware and operating_systems files ?
For MODWorld mine look like this:

Hardware
TYPE,C,8 ITEM_CODE,C,8
PC EARLCOMP
PC DESKTOP
PC LAPTOP
PC SLATETAB
MOBILE SMARTPH


Operating_system
[OS_PC]
EARLCOMP, NIL, Local_No
DESKTOP, DESKTOP, Local_No
LAPTOP, DESKTOP, Local_No
SLATETAB, NIL, Local_No

[OS_MOBILE]
SMARTPH, PHABLET, Local_No
PHABLET, SMARTPH, Local_No

Obviously EARLCOMP is my version of the primitive computer and the rest should be self-explanatory. The AI quite happily develops OS for the EARLCOMP, although I've yet to see them progress from that. They will build the hardware, but will they upgrade the software to fit ? Not so much. I haven't tried switching on Local_Yes yet and am somewhat curious to see how the dynamics change if there is local competition on OS.

Upgrading remains the biggest issue I found; the progression logic for the OS system in general seems to be faulty. Once I have DESKTOP and LAPTOP, I usually (when playing) develop an OS to cover all 3 systems - eventually, sales of the DESKTOP and LAPTOP far outstrip those of the EARLCOMP, however the game still happily allows the AI to outsell me on OS that is built only for EARLCOMP, even though the sales numbers are skewed 6-1 in favour of the newer systems. It looks to me as though the game does not tally the possible sales numbers of OS with the actual number of users of each system. Eg. If there are 5 mil EARLCOMP users and 20 mil DESKTOP users + 10 mil LAPTOP users then an OS for only EARLCOMP should not outsell one that allows for all 3 and the total in a year should NOT exceed 5 mil on those sales in any event (no one needs more than one OS a year). Apparently its not in the AI logic to develop a new OS when a new/better system becomes available. Maybe David can relay that one to the programmers ?

[Nix77]

I haven't exhaustively tested this yet, but am working on something similar - my mod will start in 1900. The problems you describe are unfortunately all to prevalent when you look at modding something specific, a lot of the things we might need turn out to need coding and are simply not moddable on the fly. You can usually find workarounds, but these will often require a leap of "role-playing" faith by the player when implemented - meaning they don't work for the AI. I haven't coded my pre-req techs yet (and I want to work extensively with them), but I wasn't aware the CANINV_YR and PARENT fields are not yet active. David is this accurate ?

On the operating systems, it can be quite tricky. Have you set the parameters correctly in the hardware and operating_systems files ?

CANINV_YR and PARENT are not apparently active in the Tech.DBF, but they do work in the Product_Type.DBF. I tested this, and it is also stated in the modding tutorial:https://www.capitalismlab.com/mod/moddi ... hnologies/

I'm aware of all (or at least most of) the problems related to operating systems. I've set the values for hardware and OS files, but the problems you described make the competition for OS development and any intermediate computer products really weird. I hope we could get some kind of ability to script/mod the digital age stuff (quite) a bit more.

I'm experimenting now with making the early computer to be really low value and not that lucrative profit-wise, so OS sales would be also quite low during the early computer period. Problem is that when the "modern computer" tech comes available, how to make the AI more interested in researching and especially producing it?

One solution I've been trying now is to [LOCK] computer tech totally from the player until a specific date to give the AI a chance to develop and start manufacturing the modern computer before the player can achieve complete monopoly. But this is really just a temporary workaround, not a fix at all.

[David]

I asked the programmer and he told me that the starting date for Internet-techs has been implemented but since the vanilla game does not use it, we cannot fully test it, so it is stated as not ready on the web site. But the essential programming code for it actually has been implemented.

So I went ahead and tested it by modifying the TECH.DBF of RealWorld MOD and set the Starting Date for the Techs for Social Network web site to 2000 and started a new game in 1990.

Here is the test result:
>During the period from 1990 to 1999, no AI companies have set up any Social Network web site due to the unavailability of the techs.

>After the game time has passed 2000, some AI companies started to research the Techs for Social Network web site. By 2003, there are 4 Social Network companies in the game.

So it seems that it is working. You may test it on your own with other techs. If you encounter any issues, you may send me your MOD file and I will test it and ask the programmer to look into it and check if there are cases with the starting date that the current programming does not yet fully support.

[David]

Upgrading remains the biggest issue I found; the progression logic for the OS system in general seems to be faulty. Once I have DESKTOP and LAPTOP, I usually (when playing) develop an OS to cover all 3 systems - eventually, sales of the DESKTOP and LAPTOP far outstrip those of the EARLCOMP, however the game still happily allows the AI to outsell me on OS that is built only for EARLCOMP, even though the sales numbers are skewed 6-1 in favour of the newer systems. It looks to me as though the game does not tally the possible sales numbers of OS with the actual number of users of each system. Eg. If there are 5 mil EARLCOMP users and 20 mil DESKTOP users + 10 mil LAPTOP users then an OS for only EARLCOMP should not outsell one that allows for all 3 and the total in a year should NOT exceed 5 mil on those sales in any event (no one needs more than one OS a year). Apparently its not in the AI logic to develop a new OS when a new/better system becomes available. Maybe David can relay that one to the programmers ?

Please send me your save game and the MOD that it uses and I will ask the programmer to look into it.

[David]

I have also tested the product tech's starting date. Below is what I did to test and the test result.

Mod: RealWorld Mod

Change I made: I set the tech 2G telecommunication's invention starting date to 2000

2G telecommunication tech is required for making Camera Phones.

Then I started a new game in 1990.

Test results:

In 1997 (see the screenshot), no companies are making Camera Phones. No one has invented it yet.

In 2004 (see the screenshot), there is AI company making and selling Camera Phones.

So it proved that the product tech's starting date is working in the current version.