Capitalism 2 and Capitalism Lab Forum

1: I don't think there needs to be many more product types. I like to play high-competition settings with 1 city with 1 of each of the ports (I'd set it to 0 seaports if I could) and set myself and all AI to start with low capital. The effect of this is that everyone fights over things that need little capital in the beginning of the game, like farms and leather products, then fights over the products that are easy to branch out to from there.

As a side note, It's kind of irritating that I have to have seaports because the ports always offer steel and electronic components, meaning an AI or two always uses that to make washing machines and blow ahead of everyone else.


2: The most powerful building regarding how easy it is to make an insane ROI is probably the TV station. Buying a TV station is honestly usually where I get bored and stop playing. It seems like I can just set the TV station's budget to max, and it starts breaking even at like 15-20% ratings, then by the time it hits 50 or 60%, it's becomes a massive money printing machine that I can use for free advertising. I basically can't spend the money as fast as it comes in at that point. Maybe if there was no max to a TV stations budget, and the government/AI stations fought you over highest ratings, it might be less of a money printer. Or perhaps it should be like software companies with a matrix of "talents" that you have to headhunt to run a successful TV station. (Please don't make it require digital age though, I disable digital age because it adds companies with hundreds of millions of dollars to my 'everyone starts out poor' games)

Internet based companies seem pretty strong too, it's pretty weird starting a game where everyone starts with minimum cash settings, then seeing that one of the AI made a social network and is raking in 10 million a month from it in 1995 (another reason I usually play with digital age disabled).

When it comes to things that are too weak, I would definitely say Semi-Products. The AI never wants to buy them from me, and a single semi-product's quality very rarely affects the finished product's quality by more than 25 points, so I don't really care if my semi is quality 30 or quality 100, since the difference in the most extreme examples is only about 15 quality in the end product, and with technology disruption on, it's just not worth it to have an R&D lab staying on top of it.

In one game, an AI asked me repeatedly over 30 years to sell them the tech I had for linens, even though I was selling linens that had a product quality of 115 (not actual quality but the quality that factors price). I think it might be due to the fact that AI seem to prefer to build semis inside of the same factory that needs the semi.

Mining operations seem really weak too, I've never seen a profitable mining operation, made by myself or an AI, except perhaps as part of a jewelry production chain. Silica, Oil, and Chemical Minerals have it worst, since they seem to always have to compete with the seaport.

That said, most of this game is pretty well balanced, and my favorite stretch of the game is always at the start when I'm wrestling over market share with the AIs over farm products while everyone is too poor to branch out further and then fighting over things like leather products and socks as everyone starts branching out.

Mitchell Brown wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:35 am (I'd set it to 0 seaports if I could)

The same here. It would really nice if you could play without seaports.
And if it was changed so you can set both types of seaport to 0, then it would be nice if the rivers was removed in game with 0 seaports, freeing up more land for buildings.
Currently, depending on the city, the river takes up about 10-20% of the total map area, so a city with no river would have 12-25% map land for buildingd

Lerura wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:23 am

Mitchell Brown wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:35 am (I'd set it to 0 seaports if I could)

The same here. It would really nice if you could play without seaports.

You can totally play without seaports if you use the script feature.

Just set Seaports to 0 in the script.

Consumer Goods Seaports=0
Industrial Goods Seaports=0

// A variable between 0 and 4 is acceptable to the game

Personally I've found that if you do this though the AI will be very very slow to start off and it will be dominated by farming AI's as most normal retail and production is jump started by the seaport goods.

https://www.capitalismlab.com/scripts/script-products/

By far the weakest consumer product group is tobacco but luckily you can't get expertise assigned to it in this game (probably because it is too weak ). I also feel guilty setting up production in this group ... ... Love the fact that it is in-game though ...

Then it is Drugs ... but I think drugs needs a whole make-over using the new technology mechanic introduced with digital age dlc that involves multi-part research and much more in-depth production chains to really be a cool product class that focuses on the pharmaceutical side of the economy. So I won't go discuss it in this post any further unless requested because the next product group can use some love and attention with a few small tweaks and become awesome.

After Drugs the next weakest is ''sports equipment'' and one of its products doesn't make much sense and I really don't like this product group because it looks boring

Original Product Line-up
> Back Pack isn't necessarily even really sports related. More for students, back packers and campers and it feels like the odd one out added to this group.
> Golf Clubs are OK but not really that popular in general, it's a very niche sport but I consider it good enough to be in the group and there's a golf course in the game so it actually fits well.
> In-Line Skates are an excellent product and should stay as they are cool and everyone is familiar with them. They are iconic for the 90's and remain somewhat popular today.

This product group could really benefit from something like,
> Skateboard, (very popular in the game's time frame, especially the 90's-00's and would fit well with the in-line skates as part of the group and theme, it also shares resource synergies)
> Tennis Racket, (falls in the same category as Golf Clubs, it's a bit posh but that's why it makes a good product together with it and has resource synergies and an actual tennis field in-game already)
> Soccer Ball / Sports Ball, (just another really popular item for teens that fits with skateboard and in-line-skates and the game has a soccer field to keep it theme related with the game itself.
> Bicycle, (very popular in general as an outdoors sport and a good product to sell but not necessarily just a sports good as bicycles are very popular all over the world. But that also makes it again a good product to sell because it adds variety to this group while still being a sports related product)
> Home Gym, the quintessential product that represents ''sports'' and ''equipment''

Back Packs are just boring to sell in my opinion but they are one of the few products which require linen and polyester so one has to consider that switching this one out will reduce the usefulness of those two semi products. Personally I'd switch out back packs out for one of the first three I suggested. Preference for Skateboards (actually Tennis Racket is a better choice but what can I say? I'm biased towards the Skateboard ... )

The game has soccer fields, golf courses and tennis fields. That's why Soccer balls, Golf Clubs and Tennis Rackets make excellent product choices as they fit with the theme that is already provided with the game. Keep the in-line-skates and you got a very decent and nice product group that is diverse yet theme appropriate.

This product group could benefit actually from a fifth or even sixth product since it is not part of a mega product class which means it can't benefit from expanding out easily as much as other groups do which means it is relatively weak compared to something like expertise in electronics due to its mega product class since that caries over into other product classes if you use range or corporate brand. This product group in general is thus pretty weak sauce. (it's the 3nd worst by revenue potential at the moment)

Actually I'd recommend making 'Sports Equipment' and 'Toy' as one Mega Product Class called 'Entertainment & Leisure' because while these groups don't necessarily share a whole lot in common in most businesses of todays world, they do share a lot of similarity in what they are trying to sell. Leisure goods and Entertainment for the consumer. I mean if my washing machine and my cell phone are in the same product mega class then why not these two? That would make these 2 relatively weak product groups a lot better and actually a mid-tier choice especially if their products were expanded/improved

Speaking of the Toy group ...

'Toy' is weird ... it's like this weird freak which couldn't decide to become a game store or toy store.

Video Game console and Handheld Game Console should really not be part of this group and actually deserve their own class in my opinion (that is still part of the same mega product group though). Add in video games for the digital age DLC and you got all your bases covered with this one. It's just so satisfying to have a product be sold and it actually having things related to it like is the case now if you developed an Operating System in the game and a certain user base of computer owners that are running your OS and the applications that go with it. I'm actually surprised and somewhat saddened that this wasn't done for video games and consoles as I really expected that change with the DLC but I digress. I'm willing to expand further on that topic if you desire in another post. A few brave modders have dabbled into this area as well and I think it is an excellent idea to add to the digital age DLC as it fits absolutely perfectly with it and the game industry is massive today.

What Toy's category really could use though is something like a Lego's knockoff product and Action Figures because that shit sells like hotcake and are actually toys that cater to kids and all have resource synergy. Trading/Playing Cards (to simulate that pokemon craze) and Board Games are all genuine classics toys too that would fit well with this group. This group isn't at the bottom in market size though but it is rather strange that it has fluffy toys and hardcore consoles in it at the same time. It really feels odd ... and I actually ignore the fluffy toy and go straight into video game production ... the toy racing car also is just easy to pick up and produce compared to the stuffed toy. This group therefore has more synergy strangely enough with electronics than with actual toys ...

Some other general recommendations.

In household products, tissues should be replaced with toilet paper ... cause ... that stuff is actually necessary ... and tissues is such an odd choice ... toilet paper fits much better with the theme of that group imho. I don't have tissues in my home but I sure as hell have plenty of toilet paper ...

Electronics has Camcorder, which is somewhat an odd choice considering that product has more real synergy with Photography. I'd put that product in Photography and add another product to electronics such as a Video Recorder, Walkman, or other popular electronics from the 90's-00's. I may be wrong on this though but this just how I feel.

Luxury Goods Mega Product Class is the weakest of the Mega's, it has Jewelry and Watches but I don't think it would be bad if Leather Goods was retooled a little into something like luxury goods and added to this group to represent stuff like the extremely high brand products such as Gucci ... I mean it's pretty much a cultural icon and representation of decadence and uhhhh I mean glamour and status in society ... yesss that's the ticket ... you get what I am saying right? It's odd that the infamous overly expensive bag isn't part of luxury goods but of regular apparel.

I'll post some more things I think could use a little touch up but will be glad to hear some feedback from others to see what they think.

Mitchell Brown wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:35 am 1: I don't think there needs to be many more product types. I like to play high-competition settings with 1 city with 1 of each of the ports (I'd set it to 0 seaports if I could) and set myself and all AI to start with low capital.

You actually could set the number of seaports to zero using a script. For details, please see: https://www.capitalismlab.com/scripts/script-products/

The effect of this is that everyone fights over things that need little capital in the beginning of the game, like farms and leather products, then fights over the products that are easy to branch out to from there.

The competition would be intensive early in the game and it does sound fun.

2: The most powerful building regarding how easy it is to make an insane ROI is probably the TV station. Buying a TV station is honestly usually where I get bored and stop playing. It seems like I can just set the TV station's budget to max, and it starts breaking even at like 15-20% ratings, then by the time it hits 50 or 60%, it's becomes a massive money printing machine that I can use for free advertising. I basically can't spend the money as fast as it comes in at that point. Maybe if there was no max to a TV stations budget, and the government/AI stations fought you over highest ratings, it might be less of a money printer. Or perhaps it should be like software companies with a matrix of "talents" that you have to headhunt to run a successful TV station. (Please don't make it require digital age though, I disable digital age because it adds companies with hundreds of millions of dollars to my 'everyone starts out poor' games)

The upcoming version v6.5.16 reduces the profitability of traditional media firms (TV stations, radio stations and newspaper publishers).

Internet based companies seem pretty strong too, it's pretty weird starting a game where everyone starts with minimum cash settings, then seeing that one of the AI made a social network and is raking in 10 million a month from it in 1995 (another reason I usually play with digital age disabled).

You may use the Internet Revenue Index slider on the new game settings menu to adjust it to a level that you prefer.

That said, most of this game is pretty well balanced, and my favorite stretch of the game is always at the start when I'm wrestling over market share with the AIs over farm products while everyone is too poor to branch out further and then fighting over things like leather products and socks as everyone starts branching out.

The same notion was brought up by some users in the past as well. Do you think if there is any way that the game can offer some kind of new game mode that extends this period of startup struggle and thrill?

My guess is that you are probably interested in survival sim games that have been extremely popular in the past few years. Is my guess correct? Have you tried the survival mode in CapLab's CES DLC?

Brutus wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:42 pm I'll post some more things I think could use a little touch up but will be glad to hear some feedback from others to see what they think.

Thanks for your suggestions. I have forwarded them to the dev team. I will let you know their feedback on them later.