Capitalism 2 and Capitalism Lab Forum

abuz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:43 am Hi! Is there any way we can sell/transfer bank/insurance firm? Right now it doesn’t an option. Also if holding company wants to sell assets to its subsidiary of subsidiary without going in stock market. Is there anyway? Thanks

We are concerned about potential exploits that would be made possible if banks and insurance firms can be transferred. While exploits cannot be completed eliminated, we believe that it would still be in the best interest of players to minimize them.

On the other hand, if you do think that the benefits of having such transfer functions would outweigh the potential downside of exploits, you may vote in the affirmative at this poll.

David wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:59 am

abuz wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:43 am Hi! Is there any way we can sell/transfer bank/insurance firm? Right now it doesn’t an option. Also if holding company wants to sell assets to its subsidiary of subsidiary without going in stock market. Is there anyway? Thanks

We are concerned about potential exploits that would be made possible if banks and insurance firms can be transferred. While exploits cannot be completed eliminated, we believe that it would still be in the best interest of players to minimize them.

On the other hand, if you do think that the benefits of having such transfer functions would outweigh the potential downside of exploits, you may vote in the affirmative at this poll.

What kind of Exploits do you think would happen?

standardplayer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:03 pm
What kind of Exploits do you think would happen?

This is what I suggest the game company shut down.
There is a very large loophole, the time is suspended, the parent company establishes subsidiary A, and then A issues the largest number of bonds. Subsidiary A establishes subsidiary B, and B issues the largest amount of bonds. B establishes subsidiary C. . . And so on. Subsidiary G then establishes the bank headquarters and deposits all cash in the bank. Transfer bank headquarters to parent company. The remaining companies went bankrupt. The parent company owns the bank headquarters or insurance headquarters with all cash.

saferain wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:32 pm

standardplayer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:03 pm
What kind of Exploits do you think would happen?

This is what I suggest the game company shut down.
There is a very large loophole, the time is suspended, the parent company establishes subsidiary A, and then A issues the largest number of bonds. Subsidiary A establishes subsidiary B, and B issues the largest amount of bonds. B establishes subsidiary C. . . And so on. Subsidiary G then establishes the bank headquarters and deposits all cash in the bank. Transfer bank headquarters to parent company. The remaining companies went bankrupt. The parent company owns the bank headquarters or insurance headquarters with all cash.

How about just being able to transfer branches/front office for a slight premium over deposits or insurance reserves?

standardplayer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:22 pm

saferain wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:32 pm

standardplayer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:03 pm
What kind of Exploits do you think would happen?

This is what I suggest the game company shut down.
There is a very large loophole, the time is suspended, the parent company establishes subsidiary A, and then A issues the largest number of bonds. Subsidiary A establishes subsidiary B, and B issues the largest amount of bonds. B establishes subsidiary C. . . And so on. Subsidiary G then establishes the bank headquarters and deposits all cash in the bank. Transfer bank headquarters to parent company. The remaining companies went bankrupt. The parent company owns the bank headquarters or insurance headquarters with all cash.

How about just being able to transfer branches/front office for a slight premium over deposits or insurance reserves?

If you only transfer branches, it makes little sense. If you have a way to solve the above loophole, you can suggest the game company to transfer the bank headquarters.

I find it already quite annoying not to have the possibility to transfer Internet and software companies. Banks and insurance companies should be tradable in any case, even if this would lead to theoretical exploits, which in my opinion does not justify to take the opportunity.


In Germany (and quite a few other legal systems as well), even if there are transfers between companies with the same parent company, things must always be sold at a reasonable market price. This same idea can also be applied to the takeover of banks and insurance headquarters. Not only the value of the company as such, but also the values contained in it are included in the takeover price.

I'm not sure if exactly this is already implemented, because I haven't played the game for a long time. But as I know from experience, the problem is probably rather that the value of the headquarter is calculated without the markup by the money transferred into it (because there was a pause before).

In an earlier post I have already pointed out that exactly this effect can be achieved in an IPO. You pause, transfer money into a company and then go public. The capitalization is now the original value and not the original value plus new capital.
Just like in the other post, the solution, in my opinion, is that the value (in this case the sales value of the headquarters) is recalculated in case of a sale. Normally this would only happen the next day, but would it be such a technical obstacle to make it independent, i.e. rather case-dependent?

saferain wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:32 pm

standardplayer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:03 pm
What kind of Exploits do you think would happen?

This is what I suggest the game company shut down.
There is a very large loophole, the time is suspended, the parent company establishes subsidiary A, and then A issues the largest number of bonds. Subsidiary A establishes subsidiary B, and B issues the largest amount of bonds. B establishes subsidiary C. . . And so on. Subsidiary G then establishes the bank headquarters and deposits all cash in the bank. Transfer bank headquarters to parent company. The remaining companies went bankrupt. The parent company owns the bank headquarters or insurance headquarters with all cash.

there is a simple solution for this - When you transfer the sub G, was it for free ? How was it valued ? It had all the Cash on Bal Sheet + Future expected cashflows from the Bank and hence the transfer needs to be valued accordingly. for e.g. Assuming you garner lets say $ 5 Bn in cash using issued bonds from your subs method (which is actually a far fetch, given there is now a limit on the bonds you can issue as well). The transfer from Sub G to Sub A has to be at minimum $ 5 Bn + some valuation formula for future cash flow. Another idea is the Brand value of that Bank, which would add to this valuation. Thus such a transfer would be close to %$7-8 Bn. I think this will resolve this cheat.

there will always be exploits, in a single player game it should not matter, just don 't advertise what the exploit is

The way to play a singe player game properly is to simply not use exploits. It's really not that hard ... just don't do it. That's all you need to do ...

It's like playing DnD, you can meta-game and make the ''best'' possible character that can be created ... or ... you just roleplay the most interesting character.

One type of play only has 1 option while the other type of play is as infinite as your imagination.

Could you include it but give us the option to disable on the start new game screen?

After all, there are quite a lot of "exploits" in the real business world. Amazon and the like exploiting tax loopholes to pay virtually no tax. Companies starting up shell companies to avoid tax. The likes of Google creating Alphabet clearly just to avoid tax. And so on.