Improvements to the stock market simulation

[David]

The following modifications have been made to prevent the player from manipulating stock prices:

1) In the upcoming new version, players are not allowed to buy a stock in which the player corporation’s subsidiaries have any ownership.

(related topic: http://www.capitalismlab.com/forum/view ... 2754#p5820)

2) Added a new [Simplified Stock Sim] option on the New Game Setting menu’s Environment page.
If this is set to Yes, stock market simulation is simplified and stock prices are unaffected by the current economic state, thus making it harder to speculate stocks for quick profits.
(see below screenshot)

[WilliamMGary]

Nice.

[Kamino72]

Yes, nice.

What do you think of a parameter set in the user-defined script to chose the level of impact of economic state on stock market (0-100%) ?

[RougeRogue]

The following modifications have been made to prevent the player from manipulating stock prices:

1) In the upcoming new version, players are not allowed to buy a stock in which the player corporation’s subsidiaries have any ownership.

By this, do you mean JUST the "player," or do you also mean, "Player Co.," and any OTHER subsidiaries of Player Co.? If so, this would certainly solve a lot of potential manipulation, including the type I outline, here:
http://www.capitalismlab.com/forum/view ... 8&start=28

However, if you just mean that the Player cannot buy stock in a company that a subsidiary of "Player Co." currently owns stock, then I'm not sure what problem this really solves, other than keeping the Player from transferring some cash from the Player's wallet to a subsidiary company? Given that the game already forbids a subsidiary from purchasing stock in any company that the player currently owns stock, the only direction that money can flow is out of the player's wallet, and into the subsidiary's, which would seem self-defeating, given all the other, more effective ways one may manipulate the stock market in CapLab.

[loldude101]

Regarding the first "improvement",

I personally dislike the direction that the dev team is taking into improving the stock market to be more "real" because in reality the IRL stock market has always been and always will be manipulated be small groups of people at the top. Therefore in reality there are no rules to the stock market; you do what you want and get away with it because you're at the top. Since this is just a game, I would find it more fun to be able to manipulate the world around just as multinational F500 companies are doing IRL.

I remember playing CAP 2 and I once got fifty years into the game producing and selling all the drugs (basically every oil + chem m. product) and it hit me as I made the connection between my simulation, playing an aggressive a drug lord pushing expensive chemically based drugs into the cities, and IRL where companies do exactly this. I finally got into the mindset of the huge pharmaceutical companies and understood why they do what they do, why they try to eliminate natural alternatives which are more effective, why they have the American Medical Association by the balls and are pushing their drugs down the throats of doctors, if this was possible in CAP 2 I would do exactly what they do. This is what a simulator should do, and I hate seeing CAP Lab become more restricted with potential updates limiting control over the environment.

Lastly, you still haven't answered my question on the facebook post for this update.

[David]

The following modifications have been made to prevent the player from manipulating stock prices:

1) In the upcoming new version, players are not allowed to buy a stock in which the player corporation’s subsidiaries have any ownership.

By this, do you mean JUST the "player," or do you also mean, "Player Co.," and any OTHER subsidiaries of Player Co.? If so, this would certainly solve a lot of potential manipulation, including the type I outline, here:
http://www.capitalismlab.com/forum/view ... 8&start=28

However, if you just mean that the Player cannot buy stock in a company that a subsidiary of "Player Co." currently owns stock, then I'm not sure what problem this really solves, other than keeping the Player from transferring some cash from the Player's wallet to a subsidiary company? Given that the game already forbids a subsidiary from purchasing stock in any company that the player currently owns stock, the only direction that money can flow is out of the player's wallet, and into the subsidiary's, which would seem self-defeating, given all the other, more effective ways one may manipulate the stock market in CapLab.

The below case you described in the previous post will be prohibited in the new version.
Let's say "Player Co." owns 75% of Company B, and 75% of Company C.
Both Company B and Company C each own 50% of Company D (so, they own 100%, between them, Player Co. owns no Company D stock, directly).
Company B buys 5% of Company D's stock from Company C -- since both Company B and Company C are controlled by Player Co., perhaps the price of Company D's stock should not change, with that transaction -- the transaction occurs at the current market price, to prevent Player Co. from being able to drive up Company D's stock price by swapping stock back and forth between Company B and Company C.

[David]

Regarding the first "improvement",

I personally dislike the direction that the dev team is taking into improving the stock market to be more "real" because in reality the IRL stock market has always been and always will be manipulated be small groups of people at the top. Therefore in reality there are no rules to the stock market; you do what you want and get away with it because you're at the top. Since this is just a game, I would find it more fun to be able to manipulate the world around just as multinational F500 companies are doing IRL.

I remember playing CAP 2 and I once got fifty years into the game producing and selling all the drugs (basically every oil + chem m. product) and it hit me as I made the connection between my simulation, playing an aggressive a drug lord pushing expensive chemically based drugs into the cities, and IRL where companies do exactly this. I finally got into the mindset of the huge pharmaceutical companies and understood why they do what they do, why they try to eliminate natural alternatives which are more effective, why they have the American Medical Association by the balls and are pushing their drugs down the throats of doctors, if this was possible in CAP 2 I would do exactly what they do. This is what a simulator should do, and I hate seeing CAP Lab become more restricted with potential updates limiting control over the environment.

Lastly, you still haven't answered my question on the facebook post for this update.

Interesting for what you posted above.

Okay, we will keep the old stock trading regulations and make the new rule as an optional setting which you could change on the New Game setting menu.

And your question on Facebook has been answered.

[RougeRogue]

The below case you described in the previous post will be prohibited in the new version.
Let's say "Player Co." owns 75% of Company B, and 75% of Company C.
Both Company B and Company C each own 50% of Company D (so, they own 100%, between them, Player Co. owns no Company D stock, directly).
Company B buys 5% of Company D's stock from Company C -- since both Company B and Company C are controlled by Player Co., perhaps the price of Company D's stock should not change, with that transaction -- the transaction occurs at the current market price, to prevent Player Co. from being able to drive up Company D's stock price by swapping stock back and forth between Company B and Company C.

Excellent, and well done!

Tell me, would this also forbid the player from forcing a company that a subsidiary company has control of (in the above example, "Company B" controlling "Company D") from buying back its own stock?

If so, this would also fix the 'bum-rush' manipulation, where the player might use a cash-rich Company B to buy up ALL available shares of Company D, then forcing Company D to buy back its own, now-greatly over-priced shares from Company B, until its cash is exhausted, leaving Company D virtually bankrupt, and Company B a little bit richer (after selling off Company D's shares, once again).

[efyin]

How about tender offer? In real life if you want to buy more than 15% stocks of a company, you need to issue tender offer, that is 20-80% higher then current price. Most of the countries have this rule, why not this fix? It will eliminate most exploites

[WilliamMGary]

You know what I would like to see in the game. A way to actually offer to buy say 15% of the company from all shareholders and let them tender their shares.


IRL a hedge fund can put out an offer to acquire 15% of a company at X price and the current share holders (each individually) can agree to sell (a certain number) of their shares if not all to the person who offered. If I want to acquire 50% of a company I don't want to do it in 5% increments.